Interview: Tuomas Holopainen of Nightwish satisfied with the “Yesterwynde” album: “I Don’t Want to Complain About Anything Anymore”.

Note: The original interview in Finnish can be read here. 

Read about the impressions from the pre-listening session of the “Yesterwynde” album here.

Metalliluola interviewed Tuomas Holopainen about Nightwish’s upcoming studio album, which is set to be released in September 2024. We discussed the album’s themes, songwriting process, orchestrations, visuals, production, future plans, and more. Enjoy the read!

Congratulations to you, the band, and everyone involved behind the scenes on an incredible achievement! After just one listen, “Yesterwynde” already feels like the band’s most versatile album.

– That’s quite something. Thank you!

What are the themes of the album?

– It’s a concept album with the themes of time, memories, and mortality. If there’s one thing we want listeners to take away from this album, it’s the idea that we are incredibly fortunate to be alive and exist. We are the dream of many ancestors and the result of a million loves, Holopainen explains and continues:

– Let’s do everything we can to enjoy and be happy with the few decades under the sun that we’ve been given. And since we were born in such a privileged time, let’s also do everything we can to help those who are less fortunate.

This seems to be the most important message you wish to convey through the album.

– Yes, but there are many other themes as well. This is just the starting point.

What inspired you the most while creating “Yesterwynde”?

– The inspiration boils down to that earlier thought. Internalizing and pondering that idea was an awakening – wow, it’s just unbelievable luck that we’re here, the founder of Nightwish describes, continuing with:

– I don’t want to complain about anything anymore. I just want to enjoy every day and strive to do good. We thought, now that we have a platform the size of Nightwish, could it be possible to bring this idea into the world through art.

– As I said yesterday (at the album pre-listening session), for me, happiness is found above all in doing meaningful things with the people who are meaningful to you.

– There’s Nightwish, and then I have Auri with my wife (Johanna Kurkela) and Troy (Donockley). Through these, we can not only entertain people but also evoke emotions and thoughts and share stories.

Why were “Perfume Of The Timeless” and “The Day Of…” chosen as singles?

– When I first played the demo of this album to the band members during a day off on our American tour in a hotel room, their initial thought was that the fourth track, “The Day Of…”, should be the first single.

– I thought, really? Because the song is quite different. That was the choice, and at some point, “Perfume” (“Perfume Of The Timeless”) was the second single – I believe that was my choice. I felt the song had such a strong core story of the whole album.

– During those sessions, Floor (Jansen) suggested that the last track is so beautiful that perhaps we could make “Lanternlight” a single as well.

Holopainen confirms that a music video for the album-closing track “Lanternlight”, the third single, will be released on September 20th – the same day as the album.

Was the process of working on the song ideas done differently within the band compared to previous times, and do you feel anything has changed along the way?

– Not really, we made this album with the same template as always. The process took longer due to the tours scheduled in between. The album’s writing process took about a year.

– The only difference compared to the previous album was that Floor was unable to come to the rehearsal space (the summer camp at Röskö campsite in Kitee, Finland) to practice due to her pregnancy, Holopainen points out the change and elaborates:

– We had Troy sing all the songs in one take to a click track, and we began rehearsing with his vocals in our in-ear monitors. Hearing the vocals during the arrangement phase opened up new creative possibilities. Even though it was Troy’s voice, it was sung willy-nilly, in a rough, impromptu manner. We could still hear the melody, the lyrics, where the vocals come in, the chorus placement, and so on.

– For me, everything was clear in my head (even without Troy’s vocals) regarding what happens when, but for Jukka (Koskinen), Emppu (Vuorinen), and Kaitsu (Kai Hahto), it wasn’t. They were like, “oh, there’s a verse here” and “oh, there’s singing on this bridge, I never realized”. That (Troy’s vocals in the background) helped a lot.

Might there be an opportunity to hear these versions performed by Troy in the future? Are there any unreleased Nightwish tracks, or has everything been released?

– Unfortunately, these demos I just mentioned won’t be released. I doubt Troy would want fans to hear them. There are no bonus tracks on the album, and there isn’t a single Nightwish song that hasn’t been released in some form.

What about other possible demos?

– All the demos that dare to be released have already been released, Holopainen says, and then laughs:

– In fact, I receive quite a number of inquiries from abroad: “Do you have any Nightwish leftovers that didn’t make it onto the albums? Could we possibly use them?”

– I always respond, A) no, and B) why on earth would you want leftovers, as there’s a reason they were excluded from the albums.

The beautiful “Yesterwynde” intro reminds me of cinematic landscapes. What’s behind the cathedral-like sounds and the projector?

– The album begins with the projector turning on and ends with it turning off. A lot happens in between, so it’s a very clear metaphor.

– The choir featured in “Yesterwynde” is what we call the Tallis Choir, named in honor of Thomas Tallis. He was a renowned medieval composer. We aimed to capture an ancient, medieval atmosphere. It was a very challenging recording and the most difficult thing to get done during the Abbey Road sessions in London.

The song was incredibly beautiful!

– I’m glad it sounded that way. The singers were a bit astonished by how to make it sound ancient, Holopainen says, adding:

– There were 12 singers (in the Tallis Choir), and the intonation was so delicate that it took approximately two hours to sing “Yesterwynde”. For these professionals, that’s quite a long time, as they usually get it done by the second or third take.

Astronomer Heber Curtis had a hypothesis about space, the ’Island Universes’ controversy, which sparked the Great Debate. In “An Ocean Of Strange Islands”, do you refer to space, islands in the seas, or both?

– Honestly, I’ve never heard of that guy. The song actually has a triple meaning. I hope people will read the lyrics and find their interpretations of the song.

Are you willing to share any part of the story behind the song?

– I do want the listeners to interpret it themselves. However, I can share a little anecdote: I remember the moment when I conceived the idea for this song and felt so excited – oh yes – this is going to be a great adventure.

– I took a big A4 sheet of paper and made a drawing on it. Throughout the time I was composing “An Ocean Of Strange Islands”, that drawing remained on my music stand. I won’t reveal what was in that drawing, though.

On “The Antikythera Mechanism”, there is most likely the sound of gears turning. How did you end up writing a song about the Antikythera mechanism – the world’s oldest computer?

– I read an article about that device, which I had never heard of, even though I’ve read a lot of non-fiction books. So, humankind invented an analog computer 2,200 years ago… There’s a song somewhere in this idea, Holopainen recalls thinking, describing the process further:

– I started doing research, and that’s how the song was born. The song was actually written long before the new (2023) Indiana Jones movie, which also features the Antikythera mechanism. It was a pure coincidence that the mechanism also ended up in the movie, Holopainen remarks, smiling contentedly after bringing up the topic first before the movie.

“The Day Of…” has a certain sense of fear-mongering, and there were even some amusing comments and discussions on social media. People got involved, thinking, oh no, such scary things, like I’m scared. What are your thoughts on this matter?

– I don’t have any thoughts on social media comments because I never read them, Holopainen emphasizes, but then adds:

– I was aware that the song would provoke discussions and conflicting feelings, but that’s precisely what music should achieve. The core idea of the song is that humankind has been frightened by apocalyptic and terrible events for tens of thousands of years, yet here this planet still is.

– We should always remember to challenge those in power – whether it’s politics, religion, or the media.

“The Children of ʻAta” features the Tongan language. Is the song a kind of sequel to “Creek Mary’s Blood”, introducing a foreign language and culture?

– The story we wanted to tell with this song – just like with “Creek Mary’s Blood” – we felt could reach the next level if we could include the original language to support the story, and it absolutely did.

– This song is perhaps the biggest positive surprise for me on the album. During the songwriting and rehearsal phases, it was very good and had potential, but it really took off, particularly through the orchestration and choir recordings.

– Meeting the Tongans was fascinating, particularly because their leader, Hanalee Vaike, insisted on meeting with me the day before the recordings. The story of the Tongan castaways is sacred to them, says the keyboardist, explaining that Vaike, who sang in the Tongan quintet, asked him:

– Why does a Western metal band want to make a song about this?

Holopainen emphasizes that the question was not intended to be antagonistic:

– It was clearly so important to her that she wanted to meet the person daring to fiddle with their story. I assured her that this project was approached with the utmost respect. It’s such a beautiful metaphor for the state of the planet and human kindness, and we wish for the world to know the story of these boys.

– Nightwish has a large enough platform that it will share this story around the world.

Holopainen also shares that Vaike eventually thought it was a great thing and that they were ultimately very touched by it.

– They were also very strict about who sang what. In Tongan culture, women aren’t allowed to recite certain prayers, and vice versa: they cannot participate in chants. They were very precise in the studio, ensuring that this person sings that part and that person sings that part, so everything was done correctly according to their traditions.

– We were thrilled in the studio – exactly – everything was done meticulously and as authentically as possible!

“Hiraeth” is a Welsh word that has no direct English translation. What’s the closest translation the band has in mind?

– It doesn’t really translate, but if I had to choose one, it would be homesickness. That’s what it means, and I don’t even remember where I first encountered the word. But I do remember thinking: “what a beautiful word, both phonetically and visually!”

Holopainen shares that he researched the origin of the word Hiraeth, which once again inspired him to compose a song. Metalliluola praised the songwriter, noting that Troy Donockley’s voice suits the song perfectly, to which Holopainen responded:

– It does indeed. And he sings part of the song in Welsh.

“The Weave” is such a vicious song that I even thought, while listening, that growling vocals could fit it. Did that ever cross your mind, and would you consider it in the future, perhaps with your current bassist Jukka Koskinen?

– I would definitely consider it. I think we briefly discussed it for this album, but we simply couldn’t find a suitable spot. None of the songs and stories on this album had a place for growls. However, anything is possible!

Floor and Kai have remarked on the challenges of recording their respective parts. Did you or anyone else find certain sections or songs musically difficult to play?

– Jukkis (Jukka Koskinen) took on the major challenge of playing the fretless bass at the end of “Sway”, an instrument notoriously difficult to keep in tune. The parts he plays there are just brilliant. It’s one of his highlights on this album.

How would you describe Jukkis’ playing?

– Metronome-precise groove, but he finds just the right spots for licks that I could never have imagined. He’s an absolute master at that.

– The end of “Sway” is a good example of that. In “Antikythera” and “Oceans”, there are many moments where I wonder:

– Where is that bass line leading? It’s not supposed to go there, but wow, how remarkably well it works! Holopainen expresses his amazement at the bass frequencies.

– It’s enjoyable to challenge yourself and others. When Floor first heard the demo of “The Day Of…”, she asked how to sing those verses. Originally, there were even more lyrics than there are now, so we trimmed them down a bit. But they nailed it beautifully, praises the songwriter, referring to the other band members.

What made you return to Abbey Road Studios in London for the first time since “Dark Passion Play”, and how did it feel working with the orchestra and James Shearman? Shearman stepped into the big shoes of Pip Williams for the first time.

– It was difficult for me to imagine anyone other than James stepping into Pip’s role. Fortunately, he had the motivation and time to do it. Whew! We chose Abbey Road because almost all the other studios in London have closed, except for AIR Studios and Abbey Road. AIR was fully booked for the rest of the year by Netflix.

You used to record orchestrations at Angel Studios, but it’s closed now?

– Yes. Abbey Road was really the only option for these reasons. Even though the price tag is steep, the name does look impressive on the album credits and liner notes.

I remember reading or hearing that four tracks have a full orchestral lineup. These must be “Oceans” and “The Weave”, but what are the others? How many members were in the largest orchestra?

– We used three different orchestra sizes. The largest was on “Oceans”, “Antikythera”, “The Weave”, and “Perfume”. It was about 52 or 54 – just over 50. Plus the choirs on top of that, Holopainen adds.

“Once” and “Dark Passion Play” were released as multichannel 5.1 surround sound mixes back in the day. Now the even more immersive surround sound, Dolby Atmos, is gaining popularity. Was it clear from the beginning that you wanted the album mixed in Atmos, or did the request come from elsewhere?

– The idea originated from Nuclear Blast (our record label). When we were negotiating the record deal with them about a year and a half ago, at some point, they inquired; you’ll do Atmos, right? Holopainen recalls and says he thought:

– Oh, Atmos. It’s some emerging trend, please explain more. At that point, it was decided that, of course, we would do it. Later during the mixing phase, we decided to create an Atmos mix for the orchestral version of the album too.

– In Finland, Risto Hemmi of Finnvox Studios is by far the best, and one of the few individuals currently capable of mixing in Atmos. He did an incredible job with it and really took it to heart. It was touching to see how excited Risto was about mixing in Atmos.

When asked, Holopainen confirms to Metalliluola that another longtime Nightwish mixing engineer, Tero “TeeCee” Kinnunen, was also involved in making the Atmos mix alongside Hemmi.

– Yes, they mixed it together.

How would you describe the Atmos mix of the “Yesterwynde” album? What are your feelings about it?

– Let’s see if it gains wider popularity, as very few people have the gear required for Atmos at home. Especially in this kind of music, it works beautifully because there’s so much going on that can be better separated in an Atmos mix. So you can really hear what’s going on in the choirs, backing vocals, and orchestra.

Would you consider working on Atmos for other Nightwish albums, or perhaps the entire discography?

– Maybe it’s nice to first see what kind of success this “Yesterwynde” Atmos has – whether there’s a real demand for it or if it ends up being a niche thing.

Would you consider it if the “Yesterwynde” Atmos is successful?

– I always love thinking a bit outside the box. If no one else has done something, or if it is rare or unusual, I am always interested.

The album cover is exceptionally stunning, compelling you to stop and examine it for a long time. What’s the story behind the artwork, and how did the collaboration with Pete Voutilainen begin?

– Janne Pitkänen, also known as ToxicAngel, couldn’t get involved this time, so he passed the torch to Pete. We didn’t know each other at all. Janne said Pete is absolutely brilliant – just as good as he is and even much better. He’s a great guy and a great artist, he appreciated the themes of the album, and we had excellent harmony.

Holopainen says his idea for the cover was that after the simple cover of the previous album, the new one should be more complex and detailed.

– I directed Pete to draw the cover by hand so that it would look old. I also told him that the cover must have a clock going into infinity. Those were the approximate guidelines I gave Pete. I also asked him to sprinkle in a few Easter eggs from the album’s lyrics.

– That’s how the cover came together, and we probably went back and forth on it for about six months, Holopainen notes, confirming his satisfaction:

– I’m really pleased with the album artwork, promo photos, and everything.

Who came up with the cover artwork for the “Perfume Of The Timeless” and “The Day Of…” single releases?

– The cover for the “Perfume” single was Troy’s idea.

The Nightwish songwriter shares that Whitby Museum is only an hour’s drive from Donockley’s home. The museum, located in North England, has some interesting things to see.

– There are old photographs from the 1880s by Francis Meadow Sutcliffe, who was a pioneer in photography at the time. Troy’s idea was that if he could obtain permission, we could use Sutcliffe’s original black-and-white photographs.

Holopainen emphasizes that the idea was to digitally add the band members to the photo. In the end, only Floor Jansen ended up on the cover.

– I thought it was an absolutely brilliant idea that perfectly reflects the theme of the album. The cover for the “The Day Of…” single was entirely Pete’s idea.

It features part of or even the entire song’s lyrics?

– The entire song’s lyrics. I think the idea came from us: we asked Pete if he could make an image out of pixels – for example DNA strands. Pete suggested adding the song’s lyrics to the image, and they formed Floor’s screaming face, Nightwish lyricist chuckles with satisfaction, exclaiming in the end:

– Perfect!

Fans have been asking a lot of questions. Many understand the reasons behind the band going on an indefinite touring break. However, the year 2026, when Nightwish turns 30, has been brought up in many contexts. Are there any plans for that year, and do you think it might be possible to perform then?

– Regarding performing, I don’t dare to comment on anything because we’re busy. The honest answer is that none of us know. We’ve signed a multi-album deal with Nuclear Blast, so there will be albums.

– In 2026, Nightwish’s 30-year history definitely needs to be celebrated in some way. Just this August, we were discussing with the record label what that could be. Most likely, there will be some sort of anniversary release.

Is it certain that Nightwish will perform live in front of an audience again someday?

– I’ll say no to that as well, I can’t say for sure. I’ve learned the hard way that I don’t want to promise anything I’m not 100% sure about. A few years ago, I said that if there’s another lineup change in Nightwish, the band will end.

– Then Marko (Hietala) left. For two days, I was absolutely certain the band was finished, but ultimately, it didn’t disband after all. That was a reminder to myself not to promise anything. So at this point, I don’t want to say yes or no to this either.

Now that you mentioned Marko Hietala, he’s currently performing with Tarja Turunen. They’ve already had dozens of performances together. Now they’re embarking on a world tour. The setlist includes both solo material and Nightwish songs that you composed. What are your thoughts on this matter?

– Only positive ones. My initial reaction was, how lovely that those songs are appreciated, Holopainen says determinedly and then laughs:

– I don’t mind, why would I? People are free to cover others’ songs as much as they like. Perhaps they have felt that the people attending their concerts want a nostalgic trip to Nightwish as well. I see this as a win-win situation.

Last summer’s concert at Kitee’s Rantakenttä was filmed with several professional cameras. If I have understood correctly, there’s some kind of movie planned. What’s the current status of the project?

– We filmed it (the concert) just in case because it was such a special event. We don’t have any plans regarding what, or when anything will be released, but the material is there.

Bands like Epica, Within Temptation, and Therion have performed live with a symphony orchestra a few times. If Nightwish returns to the stage, is it your dream to perform with a symphony orchestra, perhaps in London?

– It would likely have to be in London because it would require the orchestra we’ve worked with for the past twenty years. However, as you mentioned: so many have already done it that I feel we wouldn’t bring anything new to the experience.

– If we were to do a special concert, we’d need to find an additional element to make it interesting for us. So I’ll say it’s possible, but I don’t dare to promise anything.

Would you consider doing another virtual concert?

– Off the top of my head, I’d say it was a one-time experience that was fun to do and got ticked off the bucket list. It was such a strange experience being in that green room for two hours, playing only for the bandmates. Probably not, but if a new idea comes up, then why not?

What books have you read recently, and which would you particularly recommend in connection with “Yesterwynde”? Do you dream of writing your own book?

– I have dreamed about it for many years, and I have a lot of stories in my drawer. I have already spoken to acquisitions editors, and they have given me advice. It is a near-future dream, indeed.

– Reading is still one of my dearest hobbies, and every day starts with an hour or two of reading a book. There’s nothing better than spending quiet mornings sitting outside for several hours with a book and a cup of coffee, preparing for the day’s activities.

– At the moment, I’m reading “Harry Potter” because, as a fantasy geek, for some reason, I missed out on them. Fantasy is the most important genre for me, but I’ve never read the Potters. I’ve started reading them and am currently on the second book.

– But if I had to recommend one book closely connected to “Yesterwynde”, it would definitely be Rutger Bregman’s non-fiction book “Humankind: A Hopeful History”. Among others, I found the story behind “The Children Of ʻAta” from “Humankind”.

Holopainen confirms when asked that the lyric “In this grave new world of ’84” in the song “The Day Of…” specifically refers to George Orwell’s book “Nineteen Eighty-Four”.

Special attention was given to the mixing and mastering of “Yesterwynde”. Was anything done differently this time compared to previous albums?

– Everything was just done more thoroughly. We mastered the album seven times and spent over four months mixing it.

– I’d like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to the trio of Tero “TeeCee” Kinnunen, Mikko Karmila, and Mika Jussila, who have been with us since the first album, Holopainen begins with a gratitude speech to his trusted team, continuing:

– There’s a reason we’ve kept the same people around. It never crossed our minds to go looking for new directions, quite the opposite. They’re such a precious trio who understand Nightwish inside and out, so thanks to them through this media as well, Holopainen concludes.

Interview by: Riku Juutilainen
Translated from Finnish by: Riku Juutilainen
Photos: Hannu Juutilainen © Metalliluola.fi

”Yesterwynde” will be released on September 20, 2024, via Nuclear Blast Records. Album orders and pre-saves can be made here.

The latest single, ”The Day Of…”, along with a new music video, can be heard and seen via the link and below:

”Perfume Of The Timeless”, along with a music video, can be heard and seen at the link and below: